Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

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noplanb
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by noplanb » 15 Aug 2018, 15:02

I think it might be another 'baby and the bath water' thing - if you express anything at all against any kind of immigration - then you must be a racist. The reverse implication must mean that one must approve of absolutely open borders? - to say otherwise, is (by the same logic) racist. Now no-one may dare say anything against it, no matter how careful, no matter how measured and wise they get it - they are still "racist".
Immigration has made AU fantastic - absolutely! But that doesn't mean we have no right to choose who can come here and when. Can we not at least establish that having totally open borders is a ridiculous self-destructive thing to do?
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by packrat » 15 Aug 2018, 15:18

I don't think he's saying that any discussion of immigration rates is racist. He's saying that people who have come out and said only white christians should be permitted to come here are racist. That checks out, because it *is* racist.

Similarly, the dogwhistling about Europe being "destroyed" (you) or whole areas of London being no-go areas for Police (Trump) does nothing to the argument, and is simply a signal to rally your supporters.

I'm not one of your supporters. I reject your stances on race, on religion, and your support for the persecution of gay people.

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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by veebass » 15 Aug 2018, 15:30

I think Penny Wong has made it pretty clear today that Labor is imploring the Liberals remain bipartisan in NOT having a racially or religiously based immigration policy. She says it is sovereign right to set the criteria for immigration- NOTHING about open boarders.

Note most of the grubs on the crossbench seem to be missing.

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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by noplanb » 15 Aug 2018, 15:45

NOTHING about open borders.
Good :thumbup: I'm glad that's settled (?).
So now it is possible to discuss things like recognising that prospective immigrants/refugees are limited as to who may come here, and that indeed, great wisdom is required for the intake process. As clearly this has not happened in (say) Sweden, as I posted before. Nina Drakfors left the equivalent of their 'Labor' party, and is now speaking against immigration for groups that are anti-Sharia, etc, and speaking up for the welfare of her own people.
https://gatesofvienna.net/2018/07/nina- ... more-46315
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by veebass » 15 Aug 2018, 15:59

noplanb wrote:
15 Aug 2018, 15:45
NOTHING about open borders.
Good :thumbup: I'm glad that's settled (?).
So now it is possible to discuss things like recognising that prospective immigrants/refugees are limited as to who may come here, and that indeed, great wisdom is required for the intake process. As clearly this has not happened in (say) Sweden, as I posted before. Nina Drakfors left the equivalent of their 'Labor' party, and is now speaking against immigration for groups that are anti-Sharia, etc, and speaking up for the welfare of her own people.
https://gatesofvienna.net/2018/07/nina- ... more-46315
I have no idea where people get the idea that Labor is all for open boarders, but I hear it frequently from One Nation supporters. I suppose not wanting refugees to suffer equates to open boarders in their minds.
Australia has an immigration policy that contains criteria for who may come and how many. The approach has not been racially or religiously based, although many on my side of politics, myself included, consider that prominent figures within the government dog whistle that approach.

Labor's speeches today have been calling for the maintenance of that approach.
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by veebass » 15 Aug 2018, 16:05

Anne Aly said it best IMO.

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noplanb
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by noplanb » 15 Aug 2018, 17:02

For all we know, Anne Aly, heartfelt as she is, could be Nina Drakfors from 3 years ago. I just hope Australia can be wiser than Sweden in immigration, such that Anne Aly does not also need to be compelled to become changed like her.
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by veebass » 15 Aug 2018, 18:05

noplanb wrote:
15 Aug 2018, 17:02
For all we know, Anne Aly, heartfelt as she is, could be Nina Drakfors from 3 years ago. I just hope Australia can be wiser than Sweden in immigration, such that Anne Aly does not also need to be compelled to become changed like her.
I am perplexed by your scenario. I can't research the woman you have referred to because I don't read Swedish. So I will take what you have said in that she was in a leftish party and has left that to "stand up for her people". I presume they are the Swedes who were there before immigration "ruint the place".
Dr Aly is of Egyptian descent. Born in Alexandria, Egypt and came to Australia at the age of two. Before entering Parliament she was a well respected and highly educated academic., lecturer in anti terrorism and specialist in anti extermist messaging to counter extremist propaganda. I have met Dr Aly and somehow don't think she is likely to leave Labor and take up with Fraser Anning, Pauline Hanson and Corey Bernardi.
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noplanb
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by noplanb » 15 Aug 2018, 19:42

..perplexed..
Here is the link to her video - third time I've posted it in this thread - (thats ok!)
The linked video is subtitled, and has the transcript below it.
https://gatesofvienna.net/2018/07/nina- ... more-46315
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by slave » 15 Aug 2018, 21:13

It saddens me that divisive morons like this get so much air time compared to those that deserve it.
And they know it gets them ever more air time the more divisive they are. We know air time = votes

Yuck

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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by veebass » 16 Aug 2018, 05:56

noplanb wrote:
15 Aug 2018, 19:42
..perplexed..
Here is the link to her video - third time I've posted it in this thread - (thats ok!)
The linked video is subtitled, and has the transcript below it.
https://gatesofvienna.net/2018/07/nina- ... more-46315
Excuse me if I don't wade through that, please.

Maybe you have missed my point. I am taking you at your word that this Swedish woman was with a Swedish leftist party and had decided to jump ship and says she wants to save her people from the perils of out of control immigration.

You made comment to the effect that Anne Aly could be another Drakfors for all we know in the future. I take that to be a warning of the dire consequences you and others feel are headed Australia's way out of Muslim immigration and that, in your view, Anne might be the one "to come to her senses" out of Labor.

I said I thought that it was very unlikely that Anne would do a "Drakfors" for want of a better term, given Anne's background. Anne is Egyptian born Muslim who came to Australia as a two year old. I have spoken to Anne and she sees Australian society through a very multicultural, secular prism. I seriously can't see an "epiphany" of the type you describe in her future. It did actually make me wonder though whether you knew more about some Swedish political crusader against immigration than Australian politicians, like Anne.

Admittedly some might be unaware that Anne is a Muslim. Anne does not fit many of the stereotypes commonly put about concerning Muslim women by those calling for a racially based immigration policy in Australia. She works. She is extremely articulate (although struggling for words at times in her speech yesterday). She contributes richly to our society. She is educated- very highly educated actually. She completed her Masters and Phd in Australia as a single parent. She has lectured at University. Much more educated than some of her critics, actually. Did you know Andrew Bolt never finished his first degree? She is a well respected academic specialising in anti extremism. She has been proactive in policy development against terrorism. She divorced her first husband, also a Muslim, following years of domestic violence.. She wasn't part of some Sharia Law sanctioned harem. She raised her sons on her own, as I understand it. She doesn't live in a Muslim ghetto. She wears "western clothes". She doesn't wear head covering. She is now married to a "white" guy. She is an avowed "secularist", despite maintaining contact with her birth country- she gained her first undergraduate degree and was first married there- but has no time for Sharia Law in our society. I suspect if you asked her, her position on Canon Law or any other religious law would be just the same.

In fact, exactly in antithesis and a living disproof of the characterisations in Mr Anning's vile little, attention grabbing speech. A politician as inconsequential as Anning apparently believes he needs to make a big, nasty noise for anyone to know who he is. He is hoping this will get him a senate quota at the next election, same as him mate Leyonhjelm. He may be right, there might be enough people in Qld who hate Muslims, without ever having seen many, to get him his quota and thus ensure his continued cushy existence as a Senator.

That is why she said it best. She has lived a lifetime under the discrimination people like Anning peddle and she thanked the leaders of both political parties for their leadership and support yesterday.

Turnbull was obviously terrified by the vision of his Senators lining up to shake Anning's hand after his speech the night before. What were they thinking?

I would like to think Hanson's criticism of Anning's speech is for reasons other than her personal animosity for the man following his public and embarassing defection from her party. I think I am kidding myself on that one.
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veebass
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by veebass » 16 Aug 2018, 07:23

slave wrote:
15 Aug 2018, 21:13
It saddens me that divisive morons like this get so much air time compared to those that deserve it.
And they know it gets them ever more air time the more divisive they are. We know air time = votes

Yuck
Absolutely the motivation for what is behind this.
He and his good mate, Leyonhjelm, face elections next time and will need a full quota to keep their snouts in the trough.
Neither can run on their record of achievement- they have none. I hear within the shooting community that Leyonhjelm is losing support as he has delivered nothing to ordinary members of that interest group. Importantly, he failed to keep the Adler Shotgun classified as Cat A. Also who, except politics tragics like me, knew about Anning before his recent outburst.

So one of them has picked a public fight around sexism and the other a fight around racism. Trump is living proof that just about any publicity is good publicity for a politician of no substance.

The other one of The Three Amigos, Bernardi, doesn't need to do anything at present. He is safe. he made sure he had second spot on the ticket and was voted in before he ratted out of the Liberals. When he needs to, he will ride out as the defender of the faith.

What a bunch these guys are! I posted yesterday about Anning's journey to this job. He ratted out of his Party as well. Leyonhjelm is an old far right Liberal that couldn't abide Howard's gun laws and is tied up with Katter and his son in law. Katter's son in law is the biggest importer of guns into Australia and Vice President of the Katter's Party, which Anning has just joined. The son in law is the importer of the lever action Adler shotguns that Leyonhjelm went to bat for. It's reclassification probably cost him a lot of money. I understand they were selling like hot cakes. Funny how the pieces all fit together.

Are these the type of people we want in the Senate?
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by noplanb » 16 Aug 2018, 09:25

very unlikely that Anne A would do a "Drakfors"
Maybe more likely closer to the path of Ayaan Hirsi Ali compared to a Drakfors, if anything, then?

My original post explaining it here:
****
"Nina Drakfors is a former Social Democrat (liberal/left-leaning as per US liberal) in Sweden who woke up to what is happening to her country....: I was a faithful Social Democrat and did not question anything. I constantly defended all Social Democrats, no matter how wrong they were. I believed that Sweden Democrats [SD, anti-immigration party] and all other immigrant-critics were malicious racists."

Interview video and written text version link below.
Warning some verbal content is *very graphic*. Edited samples (read link for full context):
...everyone will have the right to everybody else’s country.
...This sexual offense was defended in social media by feminists, and the victim was ridiculed and discredited.
..In Sweden today a woman was ... so-called “no-go zones”. ... but chose to close the door, nor did the witness call the police.
...may be completely natural to marry when under 18.
..we witness Sharia police in the suburbs who control how women are dressed.
..a family hosted a 36-year-old asylum seeker from ...He was sentenced to supervisory care because ... by cutting her throat.
..18-year-old Somali ... 12-year-old girl...180 hours of community service.
...hospitals increasingly need to employ guards because of family feuds
..women fall from balconies.
...did not know that it was illegal to rape.
...dental hygienist...lost his job after he reported to the Migration Board cases of age-fraud by looking at the x-rays..these so-called “children” were most likely between 20 and 30 years old.
****
Basically, she woke up to the "elephant in the room". For her, and presumably others, one's attitude to, and identification of, 'certain immigrants', changes - once people you know of, experience, and suffer the above things.
Ok, so N Drakfors is not Islamic, hence Hirsi Ali may be a better comparison. Anne Aly may have better insight then, into the persecution of Copts within Egypt? How they have a virtual lower-caste status, and every now and then get "blamed for" something by the "ruling other-community ideology", and then get attacked and victimised - much like Christians in Pakistan.
So hopefully she would be supportive of preferring Copts to migrate here - without having cries of 'racist' against anyone else who supports that.
[Reminder for readers that this is an open discussion of tricky issues, and no personal aspersions are intended!]
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veebass
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by veebass » 16 Aug 2018, 10:00

You really don't need to keep repeating lists of the bad stuff you say happens overseas.

I am pretty sure Anne would object to some of the things that Ayaan Hirsi Ali has written against. I don't think Anne will need to resign from Parliament for lying on a form to gain political asylum, though. I also don't believe she now describes herself as aetheist as Ayaan Hirsi Ali does.

I am not wrapped in the Ayaan Hirsi Al analogy either. You do seem desperate to run an argument that Labor is deluded in not supporting a racially and/ or religiously based, and therefore by definition, racist and nonsecular immigration policy. And that someone in their ranks will have an epiphany of the sort you describe.

Fact is that non racist, secular immigration has been the policy in this country for getting towards 50 years now and it has bipartisan support (apart from some dog whistling from a few people in the COALition). We have had the same arguments every time a wave of immigrants arrives, as far as I can remember. That is how Hanson made her name and money in the first place, remember? Screeching at the Asians.

Anne Aly is an example that Muslim immigrants do integrate and contribute to our society and make it better.
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by noplanb » 16 Aug 2018, 11:46

non racist, secular immigration has been the policy in this country for getting towards 50 years now
Exactly! Its wonderful.
Anne Aly is an example that Muslim immigrants do integrate
Also exactly.
lists of the bad stuff
**THIS** is the problem. It is happening right now in many countries.
-How many lists of bad stuff do we need, to be able to say that perhaps we ought to look at what this is connected to?
-Why are many, many websites appearing and just making these lists?
-Why are there now instances of previously very unacceptable behaviour, even breaking the law, being played down or excused for certain groups in many countries?
As I said, it is the elephant in the room, and I believe it is why a complete, (open-borders) Multicultural-supporting political person in Sweden now says (in effect) you should exclude certain groups from immigration.
(Caveats:
- I would define it as excluding those of certain *ideological beliefs* from immigration. To explain further would take an essay to cover the circumstances and nuances
- Saying no to "capital-M Multiculturalism" is perfectly compatible with embracing many cultures, the people of which readily assimilate, as per our history )
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