Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

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narcdor
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by narcdor » 13 Dec 2017, 20:39

To enrol no just a street address, but that doesn’t mean AEC won’t hold other info if given to them. They shouldn’t be using it to pester people though.
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by lostdoggy » 13 Dec 2017, 20:54

Labor went crazy with the phone calls following the success of Democrats 08 campaign.
It's more targeted than straight cold calling across the board. They'll gauge information over time as they call and stop calling if you are staunch lib or labor. So if you sound like having no sign of changing your vote, they won't call you anymore.

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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by veebass » 14 Dec 2017, 06:21

Aussie Mark wrote:
13 Dec 2017, 20:01
veebass wrote:
13 Dec 2017, 16:24
Seems to be hotting up in Bennelong. The Liberal polling must have Malcolm worried. Lots of phone calls to voters from both sides no doubt. We got 4 in a week here from the LNP when the sitting LNP guy figured he was in trouble. I actually reckon they do more harm than good.
I had a live call from a Keneally staffer last night (I was at my son's year 6 graduation dinner) and have had 3 recorded messages from the ALP within the past two weeks. Haven't had any contact from the Libs at all. When I asked the Keneally staffer how he got my mobile number he said he got it off the electoral roll - that's complete BS since I don't think I've ever given them my mobile number, in fact I don't even think you need to provide a phone number to register on the electoral roll?
I can't believe they ring at dinner time. I know why they do (logistics), but I think they shouldn't. It mostly annoys the voter.

Unsurprisingly, the major parties keep big data bases designed to give them local intelligence to target effort during campaigns, which while they seem long to the public are actually short periods of intense activity and high finacial expenditure for the parties. You may recall the fuss about the Liberal one, Parrakelia because it is also a money making exercise for some figures in the Liberal Party, as it was compulsory and cost local Lib MPs/ Senators and candidates a considerable amount each year to access it. The MPs/ Senators paid for it out of their electoral allowances (a neat transfer of government money to the party and ultimately party officials) and candidates paid for it out of their campaign funds ie own pocket,- which they can claim back or Chinese donations etc. The Labor one was developed in house and is free to MPs/ Senators and endorsed candidates. These are updated with all contacts the party or people acting on behalf of the party have with a voter/ phone number. I am not sure what other information sources are accessed.

One example, often the voting intention survey phone calls you get are actually data gathering exercises paid for and on behalf of one the parties and are not actually for the Reachtel, Newpoll etc survey you see in the paper. The person who spoke to you last night will have updated the Labor data base. What you said last night may determine future contacts. We get lists of names and phone numbers from the data base and they are sorted by notional voting intentions. The initial source of the name is the electoral roll as I understand it. How they put a phone number (particularly a mobile number) to a name and also sort them by possible voting intention I am not sure. I'll make some enquiries.
If they do the same in NSW, Labor may have profiled you as "soft Labor" or "soft Liberal" which would not surprise me. They would then see you as worth the time and cost of a real person ringing you to try sure up your vote up for Labor. In a way, you should take it as a compliment that you are viewed as a prize vote in Bennelong. This close to election day the time of the person who called you is at a premium (from their perspective anyway) in a contest that could determine the fate of the current government. ;)

There are very high stakes politics at play in Bennelong and the parties will be throwing everything at it. There would also be internal polling occurring- probably last week and weekend.

If you haven't got any calls from the Libs it actually isn't because they alone respect the sanctity of your private time. I am assuming the Liberal data base has information on voting intention. Obviously, I haven't see it, but I would be very surprised if it doesn't. They may have profiled you as "solid Labor" and aren't going to waste their time to have an actual skilled person calling you, when that person could be sureing up the vote of someone on the "soft Liberal" list. Or they haven't got to you yet. Or maybe they are throwing everyone they have at lists of Chinese "soft Libs" and "soft Labor" to attempt to negate the adverse affects of the campaign against Dastyari and their proposed immigration changes. They are also evidently not wasting money on you with robo calls . That or they are just incompetent, which I doubt.

Why did the LNP ring (on my landline) me repeatedly at the last State election?, I just assume they were carpet bombing with robo calls , as most of my Labor friends were getting numerous calls as well. I assume it became apparent from internal polling during the campaign that the sitting member was in big trouble and they pulled out all stops at State Office level, probably happened in a number of places. perhaps it was that time I pretended to be a swinging voter when the LNP was data gathering.........
Labor never rang me because I would be profiled as a Labor voter on their lists.They would link the party membership to the database.
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by veebass » 14 Dec 2017, 11:44

^ @Aussie Mark Did some digging around.
The electoral roll is legally accessible by MPs, Senators, Candidates and the political parties.
The electoral roll is the basis for the lists I mentioned and it often has mobile numbers recorded when the parties get it, as well as land line numbers- the numbers are updated automatically with rego, licence changes etcs and other government activities. I am told that our list for our electorate has mobile numbers in about three quarters of cases.
Unlisted numbers aren't immune to this, as it is classified as government business.
The "don't call me" facility doesn't impact, as it is government business.
If the mobile numbers are not recorded they are pretty easy to get. legally I am told.
I am told you can look up mobile phone numbers now online (I haven't tried).
Lots of mobs sell them, including the providers themselves.
They can be bought from the provider, if you haven't specified that not be the case.

So it is anyone's guess where your phone number made it onto the listing that resulted in you being called last night, but it may well have been there when the ALP legally accessed the original data from the electoral roll. If not , apparently it pretty easy to get legally anyway.

BTW the person who rang you wouldn't be a "Kenneally staffer" as you stated. She isn't an MP so she doesn't have any. Most likely it was a volunteer from a Labor Branch.
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by Aussie Mark » 14 Dec 2017, 14:17

Thanks Russ for taking the time to dig around. And to think that some people are worried about what Google knows about us - sounds like Google is the least of our worries if election campaign volunteers have open access to our contact details.

By "staffer" I meant someone on her campaign team - wasn't suggesting she has paid staff (yet)

Our local primary school was in the news today - KK's team parked the van outside the school and apparently they were handing out how to vote cards to 10 year old kids. Sounds like these volunteer party members in Bennelong could use some help from ALP veterans like you, Russ, on how to better apply their efforts and target "prize votes"? :lol:

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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by Petebass » 14 Dec 2017, 14:38

Kids have parents don't they?
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by jezzamac » 14 Dec 2017, 14:39

Aussie Mark wrote:
14 Dec 2017, 14:17
Our local primary school was in the news today - KK's team parked the van outside the school and apparently they were handing out how to vote cards to 10 year old kids. Sounds like these volunteer party members in Bennelong could use some help from ALP veterans like you, Russ, on how to better apply their efforts and target "prize votes"? :lol:
Maybe they're playing the "long game".
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by veebass » 14 Dec 2017, 14:48

Aussie Mark wrote:
14 Dec 2017, 14:17
Thanks Russ for taking the time to dig around. And to think that some people are worried about what Google knows about us - sounds like Google is the least of our worries if election campaign volunteers have open access to our contact details.

By "staffer" I meant someone on her campaign team - wasn't suggesting she has paid staff (yet)

Our local primary school was in the news today - KK's team parked the van outside the school and apparently they were handing out how to vote cards to 10 year old kids. Sounds like these volunteer party members in Bennelong could use some help from ALP veterans like you, Russ, on how to better apply their efforts and target "prize votes"? :lol:
No probs.
I almost made the comparison to what google knows about us, while I was writing.

It's all happening in Bennelong.
Yes, I heard Laws banging on about the school while I was out this morning amid a big tirade against Labor and Kenneally and what a top fellow JA is..
I wouldn't have thought it was a good idea, to be harassing little kids if it was the way Laws was describing it.
But he did sound like he was reading from a prepared liberal press release for much of the first part of his show ( I am not being sarcastic- he sounded like he was actually reading from something prepared by the Liberal Party) .

Still better than the Liberal Kenneally/ Obeid scratchy cards, I suppose.
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by Aussie Mark » 14 Dec 2017, 15:48

veebass wrote:
14 Dec 2017, 14:48
Still better than the Liberal Kenneally/ Obeid scratchy cards, I suppose.
My son was excited when the scratchy card was in the letter box - he was disappointed when all that was revealed were a line of photos of Bill Shorten :rolf:

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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by veebass » 14 Dec 2017, 16:09

Aussie Mark wrote:
14 Dec 2017, 15:48
veebass wrote:
14 Dec 2017, 14:48
Still better than the Liberal Kenneally/ Obeid scratchy cards, I suppose.
My son was excited when the scratchy card was in the letter box - he was disappointed when all that was revealed were a line of photos of Bill Shorten :rolf:
The boys a winner! :lol:
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by veebass » 14 Dec 2017, 16:54

Another twist for Bennelong.
JA hasn't declared the rent from his place we were discussing the other day.

And the attack on Kenneally is about her being a crook. :lol:

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/ ... 04lnv.html
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by veebass » 14 Dec 2017, 18:27

Seems appropriate to repost this trash from The Australian written by Paul Kelly a little over 5 years ago, as Turnbull ducks and weaves about the recommendations.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion ... 4aebf54414

Here's the text in case Rupert tries to charge you. It is not worth paying for, but it is worth remembering..
PAUL KELLY

Commission on child sex abuse a depressing example of populist politics
PAUL KELLY,EDITOR-AT-LARGETheAustralian12:00AM November 17, 2012

THE dismal, populist and doomed quality of Australian governance has been on display this week with Julia Gillard announcing an in-principle royal commission into child sexual abuse, a panicked Tony Abbott falling into line and an ignorant media offering cheer upon cheer.
Rarely has an Australian goverment embarked on such a sensitive and vast project in profound ignorance of what it was doing, with virtually no serious policy consideration and driven entirely by politics.

This is the way Australia now works. The quest is for popular approval, moral legitimacy and gesture politics. Labor took this decision flying completely blind. Gillard's media conference last Monday was a serial exercise in populist politics and policy ignorance. She knew next to nothing about the royal commission she was announcing. What counted was framing herself as the arch opponent of this "incredibly evil thing" determined to expose those who have "averted their eyes" and allow victims to "tell their story".

Gillard's decision is classic shoot now and pass the mess to others to sort out, in this case, Attorney-General Nicola Roxon. This decision has plunged Australia into a multi-jurisdictional, multi-institutional, state-church, high-cost shambles where nobody knows how the massive expectations of victims can be satisfied.

It is, however, a perfect fit into Gillard's political strategy. For Labor, that's what counts. The media loved it - the combination of a moral crusade, a cast of victims and coming systemic dismantling of the Catholic Church.

Church leader George Pell played his role to perfection. Leading a deeply divided institution Pell is unable to project a convincing sense of compassion, reform and healing. His media conference this week was a catastrophe, sure to deepen hostility to the church. Pell looms as a huge liability in the institutional crisis now facing the Catholic Church in Australia.

Indeed, former bishop of Sydney Geoffrey Robinson called Pell's response a "disaster for the church" and urged the bishops to decide on a meaningful strategy of "full co-operation" with the commission. This is an imperative.

Led by Abbott, the Catholic wing of the Liberal Party en masse deserted Pell, who opposed any royal commission. It was a humiliation for the Catholic leader. With media outlets this week including descriptions of Abbott as a Catholic in their news reports, the Opposition Leader knew he could leave no room for doubt - he called for the royal commission before Gillard, offered her bipartisan support and finally, on the bogus issue of confessional secrecy, Abbott backed a mandatory "full disclosure, no cover-ups rule".

Having being branded a misogynist by Gillard and facing the sure prospect of being branded as a Catholic apologist for sexual abuse cover-ups, Abbott declared: "My duty is to the public, not to the church." In political terms, he had no choice.

The crazy elevation of the confessional seal as the frontline political issue for a couple of days reveals the anti-religious hostility now released off the back of the documented sexual abuse cover-ups by churches.

The central issue is the best way for the state to address religious and secular institutional failures. The core principle, as priest and lawyer Frank Brennan says, is that the church cannot be left alone to get its house in order. It has failed that task and the state must intervene.

Now let's consider some facts. First, child abuse, child welfare and childcare is almost totally a state government responsibility. Indeed, the problems inherent in child sexual abuse have been a major political and administrative problem in state jurisdictions for many years.

Second, policing is a state responsibility and police inquiries and operations in relation to child sexual abuse are a state responsibility. There has been a turf war inside the NSW police over the issue. Gillard's response is almost entirely about state government responsibilities.

It is unknown how a commonwealth royal commission on to such state terrain will work and deliver effective results. Nobody knows because it has not been assessed. Was a royal commission the best option? Who knows? Certainly not the Gillard cabinet. Even on a generous judgment, it seems doubtful.

This decision was pure politics. The message from Gillard's office last Friday was no royal commission. On Monday Gillard unilaterally obtained cabinet backing for the reversed position.

Both the NSW and Victorian governments have been pursuing the issue. In Victoria there has been a parliamentary inquiry assisted by Frank Vincent QC. In NSW, Premier Barry O'Farrell had announced an inquiry in the Hunter region headed by senior crown prosecutor Margaret Cuneen.

It is no surprise that Roxon, at week's end, was talking about a joint commonwealth-state royal commission because, as she said, law enforcement and child protection are state issues. In short, Gillard's initial design doesn't work.

At her media conference Gillard said the ambit would go to secular as well as religious institutions. Will Labor exclude its own institutions? Is rape and cover-up of a child in a detention centre to be excluded but rape and cover-up of a child at a church school to be included? This would be untenable.

On what moral basis could Labor make such distinctions? Yet putting all national government institutions into the terms of reference - surely a moral obligation - is virtually an inquiry in its own right.

Unfortunately, the worse examples of child sex abuse and cover-up occur in indigenous communities. The 2007 Little Children are Sacred report to the Northern Territory government leading to the Howard government's territory intervention documented abuse on a scale that was horrific.

If Gillard is serious about institutional problems involving child sex abuse then she cannot, in moral terms, ignore the plight of indigenous children in institutional care across the nation. How could she explain this to indigenous people? Yet how can this issue be incorporated into the terms of reference and adequately dealt with?

Most child abuse occurs in families, not in institutional care. Roxon, understandably, says this is not the focus since the remedies are different. But some victims groups will want family abuse and cover-up included in the terms of reference. Since this is the main arena of abuse why wouldn't they want it included?

What, therefore, is the purpose of the royal commission? Is it to give victims, regardless of circumstance, therapy and closure by telling their stories? Or is it to identify institutional failings and provide new statutory and policy remedies to prevent repetition?

These are different functions. Or is it to do both? We don't know. That's because Labor doesn't know and that, of course, is no surprise.

Let's move to compensation. This is the critical issue where the Bringing Them Home report into removal of Aboriginal children was undone. Its compensation recommendations were an unacceptable ambit claim because it got confused over whether its purpose was respond to the plight of victims or recommend tenable policy.

Indeed, it is extraordinary that nobody this week mentioned the Bringing Them Home report. That report assumed a polemical crusade because its terms of reference were deeply flawed and, as Noel Pearson said, it substituted moral advocacy for objective historical analysis. That warning is highly relevant now.

Labor is trapped between the need for a broad inquiry to prove this is not a selected campaign against religious institutions and the need for a more limited inquiry that becomes manageable in scope and time.

Gillard should have held the necessary consultations first to sort out what form of government intervention was most effective. That didn't happen because it didn't suit Labor's political purpose. The royal commission has been announced with no proper thought, consideration or analysis. That is obvious to all. Yet media outlets are unable to report what stares them in the face because they feel the ultimate cause is just. That's the point we have reached.

As for the Catholic Church, in moral terms it deserves to get the royal commission it didn't want. Despite the church's 1996 Towards Healing protocol and appointment of independent lawyer Tony Whitlam to investigate events at Armidale decades ago, the scale of abuse and anecdotal evidence of cover-up demands a strong response by the state.

It does not justify, however, the mindless and prejudiced reporting of the confessional secrecy issue. Roxon tried to inject rationality on this front, saying the confessional debate was a largely diversion. "None of the allegations that have been widely reported across different states in Australia have been based on information being disclosed in the confessional and not having been acted upon," she said.

That is the pivotal point. Brennan made the same point in his Eureka Street article in July: "Usually when hearing a confession, a priest will have no way of identifying a victim. He will have no idea of the date of any offence; it may have occurred decades ago. He will have no idea of where any offence was committed; it might have been Parramatta, but then again it might have been Paris or Parabadoo. He more than likely will not even know the identity of the penitent. If the only information available were from the confessional chances are it will be information which is useless to police or child protection officers."

Any priest with integrity would go to jail rather than suffer the imposition of this law which, even if passed, would have no operational relevance.
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by veebass » 16 Dec 2017, 05:07

Whatever happens today in Bennelong, JA is fortunate he has been able to carry on about Dastyari and Obeid, neither of whom he is actually running against. If he had to talk about himself it would have amounted to failing to plug in a phone, citing the installation of ping pong tables as a policy achievement and “forgetting” to declare $9,800 A WEEK of income from his spare 8-bedroom mansion.. Oh and, of course, explaining why we needed the by election, in the first place.
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by veebass » 18 Dec 2017, 05:00

Malcolm must hate it when someone actually analyses one of his boasts.

Apart from the sectors mentioned in this story as contributing to employment growth, the fact that Palaszczuk has re emplomped the 16,000 Newman sacked would have helped as well.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... are_btn_fb
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by veebass » 18 Dec 2017, 07:21

Only the Australian could spin the 25th consecutive losing Newpoll result, with no change in 2 PP for Dastyari, like this.
The 2 PP unchanged after the all out attack about Dastyari and citizenship is great news for Labor.
Labor will go very hard after Stuart Robert and Michaelia Cash in the new year. Also people like Barry O'Sullivan's business interests will get a fair it of attention.
Cost of living is set to become the critical political contest in 2018, with Malcolm Turnbull and Bill Shorten locked in a neck-and-neck electoral battle over who is best able to deliver relief for middle-class families.

While the government has maintained its dominance as the better economic manager and is more trusted to deliver tax cuts, the Prime Minister has yet to convince voters that the Coalition is better placed than Labor to deliver on a promise to reduce the cost-of-living burden.

Having secured a critical victory in the Bennelong by-election, Mr Turnbull heads to the summer break with the Labor leader forced into partial retreat and the government’s parliamentary majority intact.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nationa ... 593e3fed10

BTW I listened to JA's speech on Saturday night. Is he senile?
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