Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

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noplanb
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by noplanb » 15 Nov 2017, 15:04

A half completed cake is ridiculous; it is to make the point about exactly what a person's convictions are. Would you try to get a Seventh-Day Adventist to work on a Saturday morning, or a Jewish person to work in the delicatessen of a supermarket? Now of course there are no doubt many who would identify as Christian, and not have a problem with these aspects of SSM, just as there would be some SDA's and Jewish-identifying who have no problem with working in a delicatessen on a Saturday morning. It is all about religious convictions conscience, ie an extent of freedom of religious belief.
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veebass
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by veebass » 15 Nov 2017, 15:31

Actually I am ,getting tired of the ridiculous scenarios myself.

As I posted earlier Andrews is talking about Jews denying service to Muslims or vice versa, I can't remember which. That is a disgrace from a senior member of the Government? Talking about working weekends- many people have no choice, if they want the job.

The Libs can bicker between themselves about exemptions as long as they like and delay the whole thing till after the next election, which may not be far away. Labor will win and the exemptions will be pretty skinny if they get to legislate it. believe me.

People are well past patience with this whole thing. I said a while back that in the end the people on both extreme ends of the argument will not enjoy the focus this whole thing brings on them in the long run.
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noplanb
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by noplanb » 15 Nov 2017, 15:46

"many people have no choice, if they want the job. "
Exactly - but they should not to be persecuted/prosecuted because of their conscientious choice to opt out.
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veebass
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by veebass » 15 Nov 2017, 16:07

noplanb wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 15:46
"many people have no choice, if they want the job. "
Exactly - but they should not to be persecuted/prosecuted because of their conscientious choice to opt out.
I wasn't talking prosecution.
The job is what it is.
The analogy is if they want to be a baker they should do the job, not only when it suits them.

If we are talking prosecution, they should not be able to discriminate in the provision of a service on the basis of gender, sexual preference, race etc.

Next we will have bakers asking whether this is a first marriage or not because I don't approve of divorce.

My opinion is pretty clear as is yours. Lets leave it at that.
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veebass
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by veebass » 15 Nov 2017, 16:23

This is interesting.
NSW was the State with the lowest "Yes" vote. I would have expected that dubious honour to go to Qld. Just getting one back at those Southerners who delight in pointing out the appallingly high level of support Pauline gets in Qld.
Actually the breakup in Qld is interesting from north of Noosa the "Yes" vote gets skinnier. That's about where the Hanson vote gets bigger.

https://marriagesurvey.abs.gov.au/results/results.html
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by jezzamac » 15 Nov 2017, 16:51

veebass wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 14:45
noplanb wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 14:32
"don't want gay marriage business"
But its not a case of that. It is a case of wanting to provide a service without violating their conscience. Hence to offer to provide the cake, but not that message.

Then they can do without the business of those who find their position at odds to their consciences as far as I am concerned.
I suspect most people will find the offer of the half completed cake ridiculous and even more insulting than a flat refusal.
An analogy is refusing to serve people on racial grounds. Clearly wrong.
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jezzamac
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by jezzamac » 15 Nov 2017, 16:54

veebass wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 16:23
This is interesting.
NSW was the State with the lowest "Yes" vote. I would have expected that dubious honour to go to Qld. Just getting one back at those Southerners who delight in pointing out the appallingly high level of support Pauline gets in Qld.
Actually the breakup in Qld is interesting from north of Noosa the "Yes" vote gets skinnier. That's about where the Hanson vote gets bigger.

https://marriagesurvey.abs.gov.au/results/results.html
NSW No vote located n south west Sydney
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noplanb
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by noplanb » 15 Nov 2017, 17:07

"refusing to serve people on racial grounds"
No. Homosexuality is not a race.
[Edit] - but more to the point - it is not about refusing service per se, but about refusing to support a belief in opposition to one's own. You can be served every other cake under the sun, no problem, so to speak.
Last edited by noplanb on 15 Nov 2017, 18:37, edited 2 times in total.
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veebass
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by veebass » 15 Nov 2017, 17:12

jezzamac wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 16:54
veebass wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 16:23
This is interesting.
NSW was the State with the lowest "Yes" vote. I would have expected that dubious honour to go to Qld. Just getting one back at those Southerners who delight in pointing out the appallingly high level of support Pauline gets in Qld.
Actually the breakup in Qld is interesting from north of Noosa the "Yes" vote gets skinnier. That's about where the Hanson vote gets bigger.

https://marriagesurvey.abs.gov.au/results/results.html
NSW No vote located n south west Sydney
Makes sense. Religiously based.
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eric
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by eric » 15 Nov 2017, 17:17

Petebass wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 15:04
Oh come on! The day the conscience arguments stack up is .... the day lawyers start refusing to represent people who appear guilty,
Look...it's really important we are all clear on this issue...no one is guilty of anything until all the appeals processes are exhausted...cool?

I had a glance at Sen. Patterson's bill and its core thrust is less about protecting the religious freedoms of individuals. Rather it is aimed at businesses becoming established as an 'entity'. and that 'entity' can, somehow, form a view as to whether the people requesting a cake (just to keep the high carb example going)are gay, or for a purpose presumed to be fabulous. And, having formed that view, can exercise a right to refuse service. So it's not the baker how won't make a gay cake, he's all for it, but sadly the bakery's genuinely held religious beliefs prevent him from reaching for the icing gun.

If people are finding that their religious freedoms are being trampled on, then there are a variety of paths they can take. They could have a crack at s18(c), or they can seek protection under state or federal discrimination legislation, as religious belief is a protected category. As is political activity, race, disability, gender, marital status, sexuality....

Personally I find all this ironic.

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veebass
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by veebass » 15 Nov 2017, 18:10

^ 18c is for racial discrimination and so shouldn't be applicable. Sometimes people try to argue that certain religions are races and so nothing would surprise me..

I think I just heard Patterson's Bill looks like going nowhere at present. Hopefully, Turnbull can exercise some degree of control on his rabble.
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by cleary » 15 Nov 2017, 18:24

I happen to be staying in Oxford St tonight... Not expecting to get any sleep 😉

There's a lot of happy people around, it's really nice to see.
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by Petebass » 15 Nov 2017, 18:56

Well I was having trouble deciding what my Ice Cream shop was going to have as flavour of the week. It's a no brainer now - RAINBOW!
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by Aussie Mark » 15 Nov 2017, 20:58

cleary wrote:
15 Nov 2017, 18:24
I happen to be staying in Oxford St tonight... Not expecting to get any sleep 😉

There's a lot of happy people around, it's really nice to see.
When I was a kid, gay did mean happy :lol:

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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by veebass » 17 Nov 2017, 06:22

I didn't think Dutton could go lower than his past efforts.

He is now threatening New Zealand if they dare assist our "prisoners" on Manus Is.
Mind you when they die they aren't our responsibility.

What a GRUB!
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