Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

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vin-tone
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by vin-tone » 22 Nov 2017, 15:24

noplanb wrote:
22 Nov 2017, 07:41
Ox Boris wrote:
21 Nov 2017, 03:13
...because they're gay.
When one runs a business, one joins the laws governing businesses.
It is because of what is on the cake - not because they are gay.
What?? Nope. A tower of Profiteroles is the same whether its for a gay or straight marriage. The only difference is that the couple is gay.

You are arguing about the right to discriminate.
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by noplanb » 22 Nov 2017, 17:09

^If you are saying a non-message-cake is normal, then yes I agree with you. Just as a florist can't refuse to supply flowers off-the-shelf or a photographer to provide camera hire or camera parts etc.
The contention of overseas cases has arisen when specific messages on the cake are required or a floral arrangment specific for the event have been required.
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by noplanb » 22 Nov 2017, 17:31

"The only difference is..."
So putting it another way, why are florist and cake suppliers overseas on record as supplying homosexual customers with "off the shelf" products, yet refused to provide services/items that specify same-sex marriage?
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by narcdor » 22 Nov 2017, 18:48

Regardless of messages, the postal vote indicated strong support for marriage, not marriage with provisions, not marriage with religious protections, but marriage, same for same and like for like. This is what should now be put into law, SSM as equal in every way, end of discussion. "Should the law be changed to allow same-sex couples to marry?". Nice and straight forward I would have thought.

Current religious freedoms/protections and discrimination is a whole different discussion that can be had AFTER we follow through with the current proposition. It's not like parliament can't raise a bill to amend anything being done here at any time (a la John Howard) as it's not constitutional. That should allay fears of wholesale paedophilia/bestiality/sharia law etc...
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by veebass » 22 Nov 2017, 21:34

Ruddock brings some past form to the question of "religious freedom/ legislated discrimination against LGBTI".
This won't end well.

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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by noplanb » 23 Nov 2017, 14:25

Nice and straight forward I would have thought.
On the surface, yes. But as I said before, a US Federal Judge has already ruled that because Massachusetts recognised SSM, then their public schools had a duty to teach homosexuality - despite it not being appropriate to teach any sort of sexuality to younger school kids. That came about because a parent was refused either notification or opt-out for his children, and he went to court.
Associated with that is: will private schools now be forced to employ teachers who support homosexuality, because the advent of SSM in AU gives some kind of anti-discrimination leverage, as per the US experience?
It is in reality anything but straightforward.
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by narcdor » 23 Nov 2017, 14:41

Lots of ifs and maybes there, but homosexuality should definitely be taught with the rest of sex ed, when age appropriate.

Education isn’t appropriate to opt out, teaching evolution for example.
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by vin-tone » 23 Nov 2017, 15:36

noplanb wrote:
23 Nov 2017, 14:25
Nice and straight forward I would have thought.
On the surface, yes. But as I said before, a US Federal Judge has already ruled that because Massachusetts recognised SSM, then their public schools had a duty to teach homosexuality - despite it not being appropriate to teach any sort of sexuality to younger school kids. That came about because a parent was refused either notification or opt-out for his children, and he went to court.
Associated with that is: will private schools now be forced to employ teachers who support homosexuality, because the advent of SSM in AU gives some kind of anti-discrimination leverage, as per the US experience?
It is in reality anything but straightforward.
No actually it is straightforward. We in Australia have just determined that homosexuality is not to be scorned ridiculed or hidden. Let's be clear on the reason Safe Schools is in place: kids are comitting suicide because they think they're weird. The rate in rural australia is even higher. Are you suggesting that a gay teen should have their parents opt them out on their behalf (because of course their kids arent gay)? Maybe the bullies flushing gay kids heads down the toilet don't need to be exposed to this kind of lefty propaganda?

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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by BazzBass » 23 Nov 2017, 15:56

when the churches start prosecuting pedophile priests, then we will allow them to speak in public again.
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by noplanb » 23 Nov 2017, 16:26

"homosexuality should definitely be taught"
The problem with that is that the SSC program makes no bones about it- it is all about propagandising to the point of inappropriateness. I'm sure the result would be many kids that are impressionable, will be adversely sexualised, experiment, and regret it later. Just as the numbers of trans kids are booming in Vic because of the same program. Its a bit rich to say all those trans kids were there anyway - experience shows that many kids with such leanings will self-redirect during/past puberty. Same goes for SS attraction if inappropriately resultant from SSC blatant conditioning (PS A recent paper, from a homosexual researcher, showed that many SS attracted revert to OS attracted later in life)

"ifs and maybes" - overseas experiences are there for our awareness!
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by noplanb » 23 Nov 2017, 16:43

" kids are comitting suicide"
Yes - very sad. But figures show that after 'desired' gay-lobby programs are in place, there is little change. Eg Ontario (if I recall)
"Are you suggesting"
I've mentioned before that there is a far more appropriate, and successful anti-bullying program available: PEACE-pack.
www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-30/anti-bul ... be/7557920
It is a pity it does not have the advertising budget and funding that SSC did.
"think they are weird"
Anti-bullying programs may stop external pain, but cannot address deep-seated psychological issues.
These are serious questions.
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by noplanb » 23 Nov 2017, 16:54

"pedophile priests"
'Priests' only exist in Catholic and Anglican denominations (maybe some Lutheran) but in all denominations can be called 'ministers'. Those guilty, wherever, should all be brought to justice, just as every person in a position of power who takes sexual advantage of others by way of that position (as per a lot cases in the news lately). A hidden scarring of many young people. I'm aware of at least one minister brought to prosecution and /or stood down for sexual improprieties.
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by BazzBass » 23 Nov 2017, 17:01

noplanb wrote:
23 Nov 2017, 16:54
"pedophile priests"
'Priests' only exist in Catholic and Anglican denominations
And they are the two big offenders. I've yet to hear of a case involving a Greek or Russion Orthodox priest committing even one such offence.(yes,they also are called priests, the word comes from the Greek :) )
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by noplanb » 23 Nov 2017, 17:24

"they also are called priests"
Yes! You are right (on the second count as well sadly) - I missed the 'Orthodox' denominations. Good on 'em.
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by narcdor » 23 Nov 2017, 21:15

noplanb wrote:
23 Nov 2017, 16:26
"homosexuality should definitely be taught"
The problem with that is that the SSC program makes no bones about it- it is all about propagandising to the point of inappropriateness. I'm sure the result would be many kids that are impressionable, will be adversely sexualised, experiment, and regret it later. Just as the numbers of trans kids are booming in Vic because of the same program. Its a bit rich to say all those trans kids were there anyway - experience shows that many kids with such leanings will self-redirect during/past puberty. Same goes for SS attraction if inappropriately resultant from SSC blatant conditioning (PS A recent paper, from a homosexual researcher, showed that many SS attracted revert to OS attracted later in life)
If any program is teaching sex ed too young that's not appropriate, I'm saying it should be taught in the same breath as OS. The rest is the specifics of the safe schools program which you say has problems starting too early and explicitly and your extrapolation onto the sudden explosion of trans kids. Are you claiming causality?
noplanb wrote:
23 Nov 2017, 16:26
"ifs and maybes" - overseas experiences are there for our awareness!
Sure if it were at all common (experiences) or had actually happened (speculation). One example of possible poor execution of a judges ruling (which the way you describe it seems sound, sex ed of all flavours should be taught) in a country as large and populous as the US and speculating about private school hiring policies is hardly solid ground to enshrine in law religious protections around a specific piece of legislation to allow discrimination. I'm yet to be shown the fabric of society torn asunder by a few isolated examples in other countries that have already progressed past us. What if nothing explodes and nothing catastrophic or evil happens and a significant portion of our country's population feel accepted and equal, I'd speculate that's the most likely outcome for the vast majority.
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