Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

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BazzBass
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by BazzBass » 20 Nov 2017, 13:20

the SSM people need to read a dictionary.
Marriage:
a combination or mixture of elements.
"her music is a marriage of funk, jazz, and hip-hop"

a marriage between tin and copper ,ie two different metals , to form bronze.

what they really mean is they want the right to WED.

the day of the YES win, a lesbian was all sad that still 38% don't agree with her

boohoo you want everybody to agree with your view? it's a tough world out there, but if she expects 100% agreement she is in la la land. Be happy with the yes result,as most intelligent people are
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by eric » 20 Nov 2017, 15:39

I really hope Turnbull gets referred to the High Court on this breach of Aussieness.

http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/lea ... 9303e4f445

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veebass
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by veebass » 20 Nov 2017, 16:04

eric wrote:
20 Nov 2017, 15:39
I really hope Turnbull gets referred to the High Court on this breach of Aussieness.

http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/lea ... 9303e4f445
There must be an applicable part of s 44.
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by noplanb » 20 Nov 2017, 19:22

"Somehow society finds a way."
Let's hope so - in places like the US, Ireland and Canada, activists have gone out of their way finding Christian wedding service providers to test anti-discrimination law on this.
Perhaps service providers could specify what kind of wedding service they provide: secular only, Christian only, Islamic only, etc, or whichever combination of the preceding.
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by Ox Boris » 21 Nov 2017, 03:13

noplanb wrote:
20 Nov 2017, 07:39
"but not immoral."
Which morality? Should a Muslim butcher be forced to provide pork sausages? An Afro-American baker a KKK celebration cake? A Jewish baker a holocaust cake?
Strawman. The point is one can't refuse to provide a normal cake because they're gay.
Similarly, a photographer can refuse a porn shoot and I can say no to a country music gig.
One may hold any personal belief. When one runs a business, one joins the laws governing businesses. It's worth noting that one also joins the public arena and the consequences of objecting to equality often fall axiomatically. Well, good. Pissing off 60% of one's market smacks of the sort of business brain we don't need.

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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by veebass » 21 Nov 2017, 06:28

As if the prospect of everyone but the Government, and Lib in sheep's clothing, McGowan, being present for Parliament next week wasn't disturbing and dangerous enough for Turnbull, now this. Weak performance by McGowan BTW.
I wouldn't count marriage equality "done and dusted" just yet., if the story below is true.
Seems the move on Turnbull may be very close or the right will effectively bring down the government, according to Bolt (yeah, I know..Bolt is not impartially reporting.)
Drastic and not without significant problems... but this would, however, make some sense, given the new found interest in marriage equality by Morrison and his positioning at odds with Turnbull on the issue of "protections" as the champion of further discrimination against LGBTI people, an obsession of the right wing of the government. He also pushed for support from CEOs yesterday probably to raise his profile, which has been strategically low during the opinion poll. He was also on 7.30 last night trying to act like he is pleasant and was evasive on the question of leadership. He is a Pentacostal Christian and I am unsure whether this would be an advantage or a disadvantage in these political circumstances.
It will be fascinating to see if any of the contenders have the courage to actually challenge Turnbull. I don't think Turnbull would throw the leadership open unless he was assured of winning- so I guess they would have to "carry him out in a box". A very bad look and something that sticks with the executioners and conspirators for years, as we know.
If the small group of conservatives can get past that problem and somehow dump Turnbull and replace him with someone "more conservative" (Dutton, Morrison, Abbott in descending order of likelihood) or someone more palatable to the public but under their control (Bishop) they may attempt to give us "religious protections" up to our wazoos and dig in for the remainder of this term or they may charge off to an election with marriage equality unlegislated. The latter more likely if it is Bishop, particularly if they got an immediate sugar hit in the polls.
It may be all well and good for the over represented conservatives in the Government, but just as fatal for the Government in the longer term, as leaving Turnbull there. People will judge the Government very harshly for mucking around with the result of the opinion poll, not to mention how harshly they will be judged for a general policy lurch further to the right.
Shows how much regard this small group have for the Australian people.
If Turnbull survives, we will indeed have chaos if some Libs sit on the cross bench and it will be another step in the disintegration of the Liberal Party. I don't see how the Government would survive very long in that circumstance either.
All the while, will the Governor General continue to do nothing?

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stor ... ent_211117
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by veebass » 21 Nov 2017, 07:24

Sure sign of a PM in BIG trouble.

Look over there we are working towards, possibly, maybe........producing a unicorn err sorry tax cuts for middle earners.

This story is a lot more definite than Turnbull was.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/prime- ... 8e40bc6549
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by veebass » 22 Nov 2017, 05:06

Is Tony showing a sign of self awareness?
'Perhaps on both sides of parliament, it's been the era of toxic egos and I think this has been part of our problem too many people have put themselves first and not their country'.
Nah. He's having a shot at Turnbull, Bishop, Morrison, Rudd, Shorten and Gillard.

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stor ... tt1_221117

.
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by noplanb » 22 Nov 2017, 07:41

Ox Boris wrote:
21 Nov 2017, 03:13
...because they're gay.
When one runs a business, one joins the laws governing businesses.
It is because of what is on the cake - not because they are gay. If a non-gay person asked the same thing they would still be refused. How is it not different to asking a Jewish or Islamic baker for a cake with a message, "Celebrate Pork Month" ? You could argue that creating a celebratory message about something does not necessarily mean one 'endorses' it, but it goes deeper than that. We don't have to guess much to see how offensive it would be to ask for a pork celebration with a Jewish or Islamic provider.
Turning your phrase the other way, when one becomes part of a religious belief system, one will/may realise how unacceptable certain actions are (as opposed to people). Yes, it may well be that whilst we have such things as Kosher and Halal providers, we may now well have specifically Christian ones. No gay activist in Australia, so far, has targetted any of Kosher, Halal or Christian providers - when it boils down, none of their beliefs/ideology would support gay causes. Lets hope it stays that way.
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by veebass » 22 Nov 2017, 08:09

Turnbull can't get agreement within his government on the misnamed "religious protections" nonsense. Even the right wingers are arguing among themselves- Dutton is urging caution lest the evil Muslims take advantage of the "protections" and use them against "us" and Morrison has come out of hibernation to be the darling of "religious protections activists". If it weren't tragic it would be funny.
So Turnbull, as he has no authority at all, has outsourced it and kicked it down the road a bit. Ruddick will have a bit of a look at the issue and then the right will tell Turnbull what to do anyway, if he is still PM.
http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stor ... ons_221117

Might be smart short term politics,
Problem is the issue needs to be settled at some point. Probably better for the Government if it gets argued in earnest when he has more MPs on the floor of the Reps. What a hopelessly divided rabble.

Might not be fully settled until after Labor form the next government.
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by vin-tone » 22 Nov 2017, 08:34

noplanb wrote:
22 Nov 2017, 07:41
...How is it not different to asking a Jewish or Islamic baker for a cake with a message, "Celebrate Pork Month" ? You could argue that creating a celebratory message about something does not necessarily mean one 'endorses' it, but it goes deeper than that. We don't have to guess much to see how offensive it would be to ask for a pork celebration with a Jewish or Islamic provider....
Again - you just blew your own agrument out of the water. We don't have specific laws for these things ATM and there is no issue whatsoever. None.

Businesses are free to erect a sign saying "NO Halal here" but they don't becasue they know how destructive it would be for their own business.
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by veebass » 22 Nov 2017, 08:58

Here's the story in The Australian yesterday in which Dutton cautions about "religious freedom protections". It also foreshadowed the "kick it down the road" strategy. Good reporter briefings at the bottom of this story.
Australians are being warned that a rush to legislate religious freedom could open the door to sharia law, as senior conservatives call for “cooler heads to prevail” in the growing dispute over the protections needed when parliament enacts marriage equality.
Immigration Minister Peter Dutton and Defence Personnel Minister Dan Tehan are urging colleagues to avoid sweeping amendments with unintended consequences, such as creating religious enclaves shielded by law.
With conservatives and moderates at odds over religious freedom, some fear a rush to pass new laws would involve danger of unintended consequences from poor drafting. “As I said last week, we should include religious and parental protections in the bill now, no question,” Mr Dutton told The Australian.
“But cooler heads do need to prevail about an additional process to provide a protection of a person’s fundamental belief and practice of religious belief.
“There’s no way I’ll be supporting a process that gives rise to a push for sharia law. That’s why we need a process to look at the consequences, because that goes to the important principle of protecting religious beliefs and practices.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nationa ... d7eb397af2

Interesting that he talks about a possible push for Sharia Law being an unintended consequence when the intended consequence of the push is to create Christian religious enclaves, effectively able to ignore the change to legalise same sex marriage,

I warned of similar issues a few posts back. I am horrified to find myself apparently on the same side of any argument as Dutton. I am sure it will be only a momentary problem.
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by noplanb » 22 Nov 2017, 09:20

"We don't have specific laws for these things "
It is legal to eat pork, it is legal to undertake same-sex activity. You should also be able to refuse someone's request to support celebrating either. I don't see your issue either.
Saying 'no halal here' is turning the argument back-to-front - instead it is a case of a customer asking a Halal place for specific non-Halal.
If you mark yourself beforehand as a Kosher, Christian or Halal provider, then SSM know that their cake message will not be taken at those places. And yes, each of these so-marked businesses may suffer boycotting as a result. But none should be taken through the anti-discrimination process because of it.
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by veebass » 22 Nov 2017, 13:24

Just another day in the COALition.

Joyce gets caught taking a $40,000 "prize" from Rinehart. Indicates he will hand it back when people kick up a fuss.
Plenty of opportunity for it to make it's way back to Joyce later anyway.
No doubt this will be all Bill Shorten's fault and the good people of New England will re elect Joyce with an increased majority, while continuing to ignore the myriad of nasty personal rumours about poor Barnaby..

http://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2017-1 ... rs/9178612
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by Ox Boris » 22 Nov 2017, 14:24

noplanb wrote:
22 Nov 2017, 07:41
Ox Boris wrote:
21 Nov 2017, 03:13
...because they're gay.
When one runs a business, one joins the laws governing businesses.
It is because of what is on the cake - not because they are gay. If a non-gay person asked the same thing they would still be refused. How is it not different to asking a Jewish or Islamic baker for a cake with a message, "Celebrate Pork Month" ? You could argue that creating a celebratory message about something does not necessarily mean one 'endorses' it, but it goes deeper than that. We don't have to guess much to see how offensive it would be to ask for a pork celebration with a Jewish or Islamic provider.
Turning your phrase the other way, when one becomes part of a religious belief system, one will/may realise how unacceptable certain actions are (as opposed to people). Yes, it may well be that whilst we have such things as Kosher and Halal providers, we may now well have specifically Christian ones. No gay activist in Australia, so far, has targetted any of Kosher, Halal or Christian providers - when it boils down, none of their beliefs/ideology would support gay causes. Lets hope it stays that way.
You quoted my post yet don't seem to have read it. Your (non)point only works if you load it up with the ridiculous strawman of an unlikely message or motif. It's just nonsensical hyperbole extended into farce. It's not a serious argument. Once again I say, you can't refuse them a normal cake, because they're gay.

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