Adding an active sub or a 115 Cab?

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Veldar
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Adding an active sub or a 115 Cab?

Post by Veldar » 28 Jun 2018, 00:58

Hey everyone,

I'm running a TH500 into a TC RS212 at the moments, I really dig it, got a nice tight low-end with enough boom when I need it. However I've been diving down the pedal synth land, stacking 2 - 5 pedals to get weirdo low end sounds. Unfortunately even though I understand it'll be massive when we play a stage with subs I kinda want to feel it as my band is writing the music.

My TH500 can run two cabs, however I only wanted the subby (40hz - 150hz) low end to be pushed through the 115. If I get an active sub I can use the LPF on the back to dial in the right sub content for what I want. A 115 would be the more traditional approach, but I don't want the main tone of my Aguilar/TC to be changed.

Anyway guys, any thoughts on this would be great.

Cheers, Sam
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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Adding an active sub or a 115 Cab?

Post by Bill Fitzmaurice » 28 Jun 2018, 01:10

Chances are a 115 won't go any lower than your 212, unless it's a massive PA sub.

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Veldar
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Re: Adding an active sub or a 115 Cab?

Post by Veldar » 28 Jun 2018, 01:22

My logic is that if a speaker is only pushing 40hz to 100hz it will be a lot stronger than letting a 212 deal with that as well as the rest of the frequency range, although I may be completely wrong :)
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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Adding an active sub or a 115 Cab?

Post by Bill Fitzmaurice » 28 Jun 2018, 02:17

It's a common logic, but flawed. The power density of the signal drops by 3dB, ie., it's halved, with each octave increase in frequency, so adding a sub to assist the 212 from 40-100Hz won't help the 212 at all above 100Hz. In a PA subs only assist the mains when the signal is low passed to the subs, high passed to the mains, completely removing the mains from having to deal with lows. To do so correctly not only are the subs designed to handle only lows but the mains are designed to handle only above where the subs work. Electric bass cabs aren't made that way.

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david1234
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Re: Adding an active sub or a 115 Cab?

Post by david1234 » 28 Jun 2018, 06:54

You'd probably enjoy another identical 212 and a bit of careful EQ more.
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Wrenn
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Re: Adding an active sub or a 115 Cab?

Post by Wrenn » 28 Jun 2018, 08:51

david1234 wrote:
28 Jun 2018, 06:54
You'd probably enjoy another identical 212 and a bit of careful EQ more.
+1, I’d recommend DOD Meatbox if you don’t already have one, be careful though, it’s not nicknamed “Speaker Blower” for nothing.
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noplanb
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Re: Adding an active sub or a 115 Cab?

Post by noplanb » 28 Jun 2018, 09:51

A custom designed 12 will do 40 to 150. Its usually about 100 litres or so per one driver. Bi-amp it with suitable hi-pass and low-pass filtering.
Or, just get 2 x 100L custom boxes and use them only- each with its own 12, maybe add some mid-range to suit.
I use an Eminence 12LFA in 100 litres, and it goes way under any other cab I have heard (but then I haven't heard all that many up loud)
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Re: Adding an active sub or a 115 Cab?

Post by Petebass » 28 Jun 2018, 13:07

There is plenty of science as to why this is pretty difficult to make work, but I'll spare you that for now. Instead I'll just say this:- I've seen dozens of people try this over the years and can literally only remember one where the guy ended up with a result he was happy with. That's a pretty poor success percentage.
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Re: Adding an active sub or a 115 Cab?

Post by jimmyjam » 28 Jun 2018, 13:30

Check out the Wayne Jones powered cabs. Deepest and cleanest cabs I’ve played.
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Veldar
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Re: Adding an active sub or a 115 Cab?

Post by Veldar » 29 Jun 2018, 01:25

Petebass wrote:
28 Jun 2018, 13:07
I've seen dozens of people try this over the years and can literally only remember one where the guy ended up with a result he was happy with.
Ahhh bugger, doesn't sound like my chances are high 😅

Just some context. At my uni the bass amps suck for OC-2/fuzz/filter stuff so I have "biamped" (I went into a bass and guitar amp, killed bass on the guitar one and killed everything except bass on the bass amp, which was a 15 tweeterless combo) and I do really like how that sounded, similarly when my band played in Port Macquarie I had a sub on stage next too my amp and we dialed in the lowpass filter so it only was pushing bass when I was playing pretty low (bottom of the B string) or rocking a OC-2 + whatever else I had on

But I'll start looking for a 15' bass cab
Originally this was where all the people I've sold/gotten gear from that went well, but I haven't met a bad person yet :D

Thanks to giggawazza for the Bongo.

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Adding an active sub or a 115 Cab?

Post by Bill Fitzmaurice » 29 Jun 2018, 01:43

Chances are a 115 won't go any lower than your 212, unless it's a massive PA sub.

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Re: Adding an active sub or a 115 Cab?

Post by noplanb » 29 Jun 2018, 06:39

^Absolutely true!
You need *cubic capacity* to get the lows cleanly (all things being equal). An 'oversize' box for a 12 (100L) is far more convenient than the same oversizing for a 15 to get the same lows. What the 15 will do is give you (maybe) 3 dB more of it - but you will be talking 300L for the right driver.
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Re: Adding an active sub or a 115 Cab?

Post by PilbaraBass » 29 Jun 2018, 08:57

Here's what I have to say about bass guitar and frequencies....

One can certainly put a sub in to get a "little" more "depth" and "feel" into the low end, but it will do VERY little for the overall tone and punch of the bass guitar (which is an amazingly broad-spectrum instrument).

Unless you're writing the book "Fifty Shades of Mud", your sound should be built from the top down and not trying to get more "bass" from your bass...

back when I used to play at church, on occasion I'd practice without my amp on stage and there would be little or no bass guitar in the foldback speakers... The sub was on stage and I could feel the bass through it, but the sound was just nondescript mud. There's a reason why I always had my amp when playing for a service.
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Re: Adding an active sub or a 115 Cab?

Post by slowlearner » 29 Jun 2018, 20:00

Didn't stonecoldbass do exactly this a while back? Apparently to great success. Dig up that thread from about 4 months back.
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Re: Adding an active sub or a 115 Cab?

Post by bass-in-yoface » 06 Jul 2018, 13:23

You need a crossover. Set it at 100hz. Everything lower will go to your sub and the rest to the full range box.
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