Ampless?

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moik
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Ampless?

Post by moik » 20 Jan 2017, 23:54

We're a 6 piece band that gigs regularly. Bass, electric and drums supplying the noise and 3 vocals up front.
One of our singers is moving on and we've found a replacement. We plan on easing the new girl into it and the other girl leaving will be gigging with us until she leaves. So next two gigs that's seven on stage.

Here's the dilemma.

In a fortnight we're playing one of our regular venues where even having 6 on stage is a squeeze. Trying to think of a way to downsize so we all fit.

The drummer is taking a smaller kit.

Which leaves me. How do I go about going ampless? I know it can be done but have never tried it so after some tips.

What I plan on is running my passive Jazz through a Tonehammer D.I. to the desk. I obviously have to have myself coming out of the wedges.
Probably answered my own question but I'm just making sure I don't miss anything.

Anything else I need to know?

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Ampless?

Post by Bill Fitzmaurice » 21 Jan 2017, 01:26

It can be done, of course, but I don't care for it. With everything coming out of the monitors you can't isolate yourself from the overall mix.

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SneakyJak
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Re: Ampless?

Post by SneakyJak » 21 Jan 2017, 05:08

Pbass's band Synaescope does it. I went to see him play when they came down to Canberra recently.

A few observations. there set up was easy twice that of any other band that was on that night. So there is clearly an overhead to having it. They were all using in ears which because of a small technical issue meant although Pbass could hear himself we weren't getting anything in the mix. The bass sounded great which was a surprise as it was just going through a DI so I thought you'd lose something but clearly not.

For specifics shot Pbass a message if he doesn't see this thread in a timely manner. I'm sure he wouldn't mind talking to you about it he's a top bloke.

And more importantly they killed it, great live show if you like metal check them out.

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david1234
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Re: Ampless?

Post by david1234 » 21 Jan 2017, 06:09

One of my 80's bands uses wired in-ears now. I take my amp head (a tiny micro amp) and no speaker cab; so I still have all the controls I'm used to and can mute to tune. We all get control of our own 'ears' mix, and it's a big step up from having a stage so loud I needed to play with ear plugs in anyway.
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Aussie Mark
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Re: Ampless?

Post by Aussie Mark » 21 Jan 2017, 06:40

I'm going to a friend's wedding tonight and am also playing 2 sets at the wedding. I want to travel light so am only taking a bass and pedal board and will go ampless. The venue (Anita's Theatre) has enough foldback sends that they can give me my own wedge and send so I don't imagine I'll have any issue hearing myself.

I've also run direct and into a wedge at a gig when my head carked it mid-set. It can be done, and as others have pointed out above, a lot of bands already do it all the time.

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Petebass
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Re: Ampless?

Post by Petebass » 21 Jan 2017, 08:23

It can be done but it's usually quite painful. It's hardly worth investing in an in-ear system in this case. It's only a temporary situation until the singer leaves isn't it?

If there's room for wedges on stage, then there's room for a bass cab that's either shaped like a wedge, or is small enough to put in front of you where the wedge would normally go. In this situation, I use a 1x12 cab with one of those Markbass amp stands under it to angle it up like a wedge.
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Rocksolid
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Re: Ampless?

Post by Rocksolid » 21 Jan 2017, 11:51

I have used my qsc k12 to do this. Any powered monitor with 2 inputs is great for it. Send from your Pedal board into one input, the foldback send to the other input. You can then control your volume thru the wedge independently of the desk.
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bigswifty
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Re: Ampless?

Post by bigswifty » 21 Jan 2017, 11:59

Rocksolid wrote:I have used my qsc k12 to do this. Any powered monitor with 2 inputs is great for it. Send from your Pedal board into one input, the foldback send to the other input. You can then control your volume thru the wedge independently of the desk.
Ok this has me curious. I've gone ampless a few times, usually under duress. While I've been fine with the tone mostly (using an amp modeler) it's been frustrating not having total control over my stage volume. How are you doing this? The "K" series has the volume on the back right?

Mike
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Rocksolid
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Re: Ampless?

Post by Rocksolid » 21 Jan 2017, 12:43

bigswifty wrote:
Rocksolid wrote:I have used my qsc k12 to do this. Any powered monitor with 2 inputs is great for it. Send from your Pedal board into one input, the foldback send to the other input. You can then control your volume thru the wedge independently of the desk.
Ok this has me curious. I've gone ampless a few times, usually under duress. While I've been fine with the tone mostly (using an amp modeler) it's been frustrating not having total control over my stage volume. How are you doing this? The "K" series has the volume on the back right?

Mike
The k12 has 2 individual inputs with individual volume controls. Yes the controls are on the back, I always use the one at the top so I can reach around if needed.
However! I have my pedal board that I normally use for this scenario with a geb7 in the chain after the di out so I can increase my volume to the monitor without changing level going to the desk. The other powered monitor that sounds surprisingly good for this is a Beh'r B112D at moderate volumes!

The other way to do it with a single input monitor is with a rolls PM351 box. These easily drive a monitor, heaps of gain on tap. Run the foldback send, bass, even your mic into it and have volume control of all 3 to your monitor. The mic and instrument have thru options to the desk.

Hope this helps!
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Petebass
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Re: Ampless?

Post by Petebass » 21 Jan 2017, 12:46

Rocksolid wrote:I have used my qsc k12 to do this. Any powered monitor with 2 inputs is great for it. Send from your Pedal board into one input, the foldback send to the other input. You can then control your volume thru the wedge independently of the desk.
I quite like this concept. Especially for those who also sing, and especially when going ampless on biggish stages. On tiny stages though, I'm usually standing right next to, or right on top of a wedge meant for the person next to me, and its usually enough so i can hear everything i need to hear.
* 2 Stingray 5's (one heavily modded), Ibanez SR805, Ashbory, + more...
* Carvin B1500, Epifani PS1000, Ashdown Superfly amps.
* Lots of DIY neo/lightweight cabs including one made from composites http://www.ozbassforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2546

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BassLine
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Re: Ampless?

Post by BassLine » 22 Jan 2017, 01:19

Make the stage "bigger" by using Milk crates to raise the monitors in front of the stage and amps to the side of the stage.

I've gone ampless many times:
quiet gigs + monitors = delightful,
loud gigs + monitors = I can't hear s###.
Loud gigs + in-ears = ranges from sublime to terrible.
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BassLine
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Re: Ampless?

Post by BassLine » 22 Jan 2017, 01:34

Rocksolid wrote:
bigswifty wrote:
Rocksolid wrote:I have used my qsc k12 to do this. Any powered monitor with 2 inputs is great for it. Send from your Pedal board into one input, the foldback send to the other input. You can then control your volume thru the wedge independently of the desk.
Ok this has me curious. I've gone ampless a few times, usually under duress. While I've been fine with the tone mostly (using an amp modeler) it's been frustrating not having total control over my stage volume. How are you doing this? The "K" series has the volume on the back right?

Mike
The k12 has 2 individual inputs with individual volume controls. Yes the controls are on the back, I always use the one at the top so I can reach around if needed.
However! I have my pedal board that I normally use for this scenario with a geb7 in the chain after the di out so I can increase my volume to the monitor without changing level going to the desk. The other powered monitor that sounds surprisingly good for this is a Beh'r B112D at moderate volumes!

The other way to do it with a single input monitor is with a rolls PM351 box. These easily drive a monitor, heaps of gain on tap. Run the foldback send, bass, even your mic into it and have volume control of all 3 to your monitor. The mic and instrument have thru options to the desk.

Hope this helps!
Very good advice here Mike. I've got a 4 channel mixer you can borrow to test it out. Master and individual channel volumes/EQ. You'll need to grab a powered monitor though.

Or GK MB200 head -> DI to desk for FOH, plus Line Out to any pedal with a volume, then to your powered monitor.
Basses: Fender - Rob Allen - Tobias - Duesenberg
Rigs: Jule Amps - AER - GK - Bergantino - Baer

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Rocksolid
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Re: Ampless?

Post by Rocksolid » 22 Jan 2017, 07:05

I'm pretty sure the line out on the MB series is post master volume. I've used this output to run IEM before.
Last edited by Rocksolid on 22 Jan 2017, 11:12, edited 1 time in total.
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bigswifty
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Re: Ampless?

Post by bigswifty » 22 Jan 2017, 10:55

Duplicate post deleted grrr
Last edited by bigswifty on 22 Jan 2017, 11:02, edited 1 time in total.
I've gone Stingray mad 8|

bigswifty
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Re: Ampless?

Post by bigswifty » 22 Jan 2017, 11:00

Hrm, very interesting. Will thInk on all this, too late for today so I'll proceed with my original plan of hoping for the best :/

Basically it needs a device with one input, two outputs one of which has volume control and either two monitors or a monitor with two inputs.

Speaking of today (very small indoor acoustic-style) it sure would be a lot simpler if I took a teensy combo and set it on the floor next to the monitor *sigh*. Oh well I don't make the rules, I just follow them. No doubt someone before me has carted in some hugely inappropriate bit of kit and ruined it for the rest of us. There, I feel much better now hehehehe

M
I've gone Stingray mad 8|

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