Last question of the year...

Boutique bass guitar effects pedals that require no battery or power supply. Includes multi-channel boosters and drivers in a compact, aluminium casing with D.I. output.
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Cave Passive Pedals
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Last question of the year...

Post by Cave Passive Pedals » 28 Dec 2011, 13:55

Hi Guys

Hope you're all overweight with turkey and happily merry with your favourite beverage. And hope you all had a great time with your families and friends!


Here's a question that has been bothering me for many, many years now...

--Do teenagers (or young adults up to 25-ish) really know about "tone" or do most, like when I was a kid, just want a lot of big noises to boost the ego?
Isn't "tone" something you acquire with experience?


Have a fantastic New Years Eve and see you in the year 2012!
Cave Passive Pedals

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PilbaraBass
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Re: Last question of the year...

Post by PilbaraBass » 28 Dec 2011, 14:08

I think that young adults (including teens) have quite sophisticated ears. And they do know by a more natural means if the tone is what they want.
What they are lacking is any knowledge or experience on how to achieve that tone. They tend to go with what everyone else is doing (peer pressure) whether it is right and wrong and what quick, instantaneous results. And being cool and stylish is more important than having something that may work better for them.
When I was 18-20 I played in a couple of bands as a drummer. I had a good idea of what I was after tone-wise. I could tell if a snare sounded the way I wanted it to sound, I could tell the difference between a good cymbal and a great cymbal and I did a lot of experimentation with heads, tunings and damping to get the sound I wanted. But I read everything I could get my hands on and spent many hours tweaking.
If you look at a few of the young-uns on this forum, Like Soong and Terry, for example. You’ll see that these guys know what they want tone-wise and are doing very well for themselves in achieving it.
'98 Carvin AC40, '07 Squier JDAV, '91 P-bass, '96 Ibanez ATK300F, '15 Ibanez SR605
Kanye West wrote:My greatest pain in life is that I will never be able to see myself perform live.

Cave Passive Pedals
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Re: Last question of the year...

Post by Cave Passive Pedals » 28 Dec 2011, 16:06

Thanks Kerry
Maybe, then it's just bass players and drummers that have "tone awareness" at a young age! Can I then rephrase the question and you guys help dissect myself when I was a kid (and maybe most young guitarists)?

"...Why do most young guitarists have to be the loudest and think they have the best tone when it is quite obvious they don't as everyone else in the band continually comments on how over-distorted and loud the guitar tone is?..."

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BassLine
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Re: Last question of the year...

Post by BassLine » 28 Dec 2011, 18:45

Dad owned a music shop so I guess I was spoilt for tone!!

Personalities of guitarists tended to be more attention seeking or simply untalented wanna-be's. Many bass players chose to play bass, or we're guitarists that quickly discovered the power and impact that bass could bring to music. Instead of WHAT you played, focus was on HOW you played it/sounded.

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Basses: Fender - Rob Allen - Tobias - Duesenberg
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thenosebleedkid
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Re: Last question of the year...

Post by thenosebleedkid » 28 Dec 2011, 20:44

I haven't noticed any of the generalities that people have expressed about young musicians.

Young musicians who idolise certain rock stars and 1970s lifestyles, well, maybe, but I think their older fellow arena-rock admirers also like to blast people to death too. Young musicians in general? Not really.

spencerbasssman
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Re: Last question of the year...

Post by spencerbasssman » 01 Jan 2012, 11:30

Kerry is absolutely right in my books. I definitely know of musicians that just want 'bigger and better' all the time so that it seems that they are pro, but honestly they have no idea about what they are doing or how to work it. For example recently I did a few performances at a high school helping out some students, and there was one other bass player there as well, younger than me, and he rocked up with a big quad box twice as big as any of the other amps we were using. Now this show was very intimate and small, and I was just using a small 12" amp provided by the school, and I was able to get a very nice tone and volume out of it and it sounded perfect for the job. However when this other bass player performed his sound was all over the place. the levels were wrong, the EQ was wrong, and it just didn't sound right at all and the performance was overall really affected badly because of it. So it just shows that big macho cabs and elaborate set-ups does not in any way at all make up for experience and knowledge. In fact more often than not your probably going to be accused for trying to compensate for other areas... Besides, at the end of the show I simply grabbed my case and walked out, whilst he was still there spending half an hour packing up.

As for guitarists, again I think knowledge and experience is even more in need. Bass players are lucky, we can get away with a lot of different tones, however for guitarists it is imperative that they have a good one. And I have definitely seen my fair share of young guitarists who just have no idea about what they are doing. One guitarist I worked with practically guessed at how their amp worked, and did the old 'she'll be right' trick, which I can tell you did not work... I had to spend fifteen minutes fixing their sound for them, then when I tried to ask the guitarist to try different pick-up settings they had absolutely know idea what I was talking about, and just guessed which pick-up the switch was on... So I really feel experience and knowledge is something that can not be replaced whatsoever, and it is just natural that younger people won't have that for a long time in their careers.
And then you get the 'petrol heads' who just think that as long as they are louder than everyone else than they sound good, and that a bad sound is never their fault... I'm not quite sure what fixes that haha.

But as I said I think experience and knowledge is the biggest factor in this case. I mean I am only young myself but I have had the experience to know what a good tone is, and how to fix a bad one. I think also you need to experiment with sounds which is probably something younger musicians don't do enough either. So it is a combination of many things, but I would say yes young people know about tone, but experience is what allows you to really achieve a good one.
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Caveslave
Endorser: Cave Passive Pedals

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Re: Last question of the year...

Post by Cave Passive Pedals » 02 Jan 2012, 13:02

Hi Shayne

You are one of the lucky ones, though. Kevin, your father, has obviously given you a hand up in the "pass on the experience" side of things.

You have always had the sense to respect your father's knowledge and the fact that he has had a number two and a number four hit in the charts, must have bearing on your abilities and your ear for the right tone.

I think it's great that you can pass on the knowledge and help others, even though it must be frustrating!

Heath

spencerbasssman
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Re: Last question of the year...

Post by spencerbasssman » 03 Jan 2012, 22:40

Yeah, he has played a big hand in the technical side of things, just doing things like building amps and guitars ourselves and doing a lot of custom stuff. It's really taught me a lot about music gear in general and what it produces in the sound. Having decades of experience is very helpful, even though there is no substitution for getting in there and experiencing what it's like to be in a band first hand, it is really great to have that knowledge at hand here at home.

And yeah it can get frustrating sometimes working with some younger people, but that's usually when they are really stubborn and won't listen. But you just have to step back and think well you were at that stage once, it just takes time and experience to develop. But working with inexperienced musicians and passing on knowledge, especially through teaching, not only helps them but it does also allow you to sharpen your own skills as well. So it is a positive all round.
Blessed are the pedal makers!
Caveslave
Endorser: Cave Passive Pedals

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